[Chemistry_faculty] competition

Sat Jan 20 08:20:45 PST 2024

This is not strictly true. Penn Chemistry has a fantastically successful professional masters program that is completely company paid. Of course, they are in the hotbed of pharma companies in the New Jersey / Pennsylvania corridor. UCLA has a new program, it remains to be seen what financial structure they end up with. However, they have a strong connection to Amgen (even though UCSB is closer to the company), and there are a lot of smaller biotech / pharma companies with UCLA connections - Mike Jung (the inventor of Xtandi, which made >$500M for UC when the patent was sold -  of course, none of that made its way back to campus) is a founder or advisor of some ridiculous number of companies, I think 17. 

Not in chemistry, but UCSD has a professional masters in pharmaceutical development that started as an in-person professional degree, and now has moved to an on-line version. I was a reviewer of their proposal for the latter when it was UC-approved a couple of years ago. It is very successful, they even have a few salary lines dedicated to this program exclusively. Again, they are in a hot-bed of biotech / pharma companies, and they tailor their program to that clientele. People can definitely make these things go. You just have to have (or bring in) expertise that is pertinent not just to the students but to the companies who employ them, or will employ them. Leverage your strengths. 

Pharma / med chem would not work for us, I agree with that. We don’t have the profile of UCLA, they got to that spot first, and we aren’t near a bunch of companies. If you can come up w/ something that could be delivered in an on-line version, that can be a cash cow. There are people all over the world who will pay up for the prestige of a UC degree, even if it isn’t really the same, as we all know. I know little about the professional masters program UCR has in engineering, but my understanding is they do have an online track and it is going well. 

> On Jan 20, 2024, at 7:49 AM, Matthew Conley <matthew.conley at ucr.edu> wrote:
> 
> Companies in my orbit wouldn't pay for a professional degree, and I would be surprised if they do at UCLA or anywhere. A MACS is not an MBA. HR has clear expectations for BS (or MS) graduates that align with the instrumentation in that company since these students tend to be limited to technical roles. Employee development is, unfortunately, not part of the plan.
>  
> If we develop a program like this, it needs to provide enough benefit to the student to justify the cost. Mike’s thought about engaging CS students could be an interesting way forward, and there are probably other ideas that may pass the smell test. In the end we have to be very careful, this is a slippery slope towards a money grab for a degree that may not be worth all that much on the job market.
> 
> Matt
> 
> On Fri, Jan 19, 2024 at 6:05 PM Michael Pirrung <michael.pirrung at ucr.edu <mailto:michael.pirrung at ucr.edu>> wrote:
>> Matt is not wrong, but a point about professional masters programs is that they are most often paid for by the employer. Presumably, that is how UCLA is getting its program going, via strong connections w/ local med chem companies. Not every UC could do this however. 
>> 
>> A thought - perhaps our program could leverage campus expertise in computational chemistry to offer training to people who are strong in CS but have never had a biology or chemistry course to move into life sciences companies. That might be in their interest enough to pay for themselves. 
>> 
>>> On Jan 16, 2024, at 11:00 AM, Matthew Conley <matthew.conley at ucr.edu <mailto:matthew.conley at ucr.edu>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I'm having a hard time seeing a population that would benefit from paying $36k/year for a MACS degree. We give an arguably more valuable MS/MA degree to students that do not matriculate through our PhD program at near-zero cost to the student. This is just a revenue generator at a significant cost to the student. 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Jan 15, 2024 at 10:48 AM Leonard Mueller <lmueller at ucr.edu <mailto:lmueller at ucr.edu>> wrote:
>>>> One challenge for different target populations is the cost of professional school tuition. The UCLA program is $36k/year just for tuition.
>>>> 
>>>> -Len
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> From: bartels at ucr.edu <mailto:bartels at ucr.edu> [mailto:bartels at ucr.edu <mailto:bartels at ucr.edu>] 
>>>> Sent: Monday, January 15, 2024 10:42 AM
>>>> To: leonard.mueller at ucr.edu <mailto:leonard.mueller at ucr.edu>
>>>> Cc: chemistry_faculty at lists.ucr.edu <mailto:chemistry_faculty at lists.ucr.edu>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Chemistry_faculty] FW: competition
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> I believe this is a good idea for the following reasons:
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> -increases enrollment in graduate courses and thus allows us to offer a wider range
>>>> 
>>>> -provides a pathway to attract local students who are unsure about going all the way for PhD; as such, it will increase domestic in-state enrollment. Ultimately, we may convince the best of them to become PhD students
>>>> 
>>>> -there is likely some funding coming to the department as a portion of the fees out of state students pay
>>>> 
>>>> -it provides additional educational opportunity to our stakeholders at minimal incremental cost to the department 
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> Ludwig Bartels
>>>> 
>>>> Professor of Chemistry
>>>> 
>>>> University of California at Riverside
>>>> 
>>>> Phone: 951 827 2041
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Jan 15, 2024, at 06:59, Leonard Mueller <lmueller at ucr.edu <mailto:lmueller at ucr.edu>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Colleagues,
>>>> 
>>>> You may find this interesting. I expect that we could do something even better if we put ourselves to it. I would be interested in your opinions on this. Perhaps we can have a discussion on the Dept Slack regarding a professional masters program.
>>>> 
>>>> -Len
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> From: Michael Pirrung [mailto:michael.pirrung at ucr.edu <mailto:michael.pirrung at ucr.edu>] 
>>>> Sent: Monday, January 15, 2024 5:50 AM
>>>> To: Ana Bahamonde <ana.bahamonde at ucr.edu <mailto:ana.bahamonde at ucr.edu>>; Matthew D Casselman <matthew.casselman at ucr.edu <mailto:matthew.casselman at ucr.edu>>; Richard Hooley <richard.hooley at ucr.edu <mailto:richard.hooley at ucr.edu>>; Kevin Kou <kevink at ucr.edu <mailto:kevink at ucr.edu>>; Catharine Larsen <catharine.larsen at ucr.edu <mailto:catharine.larsen at ucr.edu>>; William James Neary <william.neary at ucr.edu <mailto:william.neary at ucr.edu>>; Chris Switzer <christopher.switzer at ucr.edu <mailto:christopher.switzer at ucr.edu>>
>>>> Cc: leonard.mueller at ucr.edu <mailto:leonard.mueller at ucr.edu>
>>>> Subject: competition
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> https://macsucla.com/
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>   --
>>>> Best Regards, 
>>>> 
>>>> Dr. Michael Pirrung
>>>> Distinguished Professor of Chemistry
>>>> University of California
>>>> Riverside, CA 92521
>>>> 
>>>> Professor of Pharmaceutical Science
>>>> University of California
>>>> Irvine, CA 92697
>>>> v: 951-827-2722
>>>> michael.pirrung at ucr.edu <mailto:michael.pirrung at ucr.edu>
>>>> https://profiles.ucr.edu/michael.pirrung
>>>> Room 448, Chemical Sciences
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered;
>>>> the point is to discover them. Galileo Galilei (1564 - 1642).
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>> 
>> 
>> — Best Regards,
>> 
>> Dr. Michael Pirrung
>> Distinguished Professor of Chemistry
>> University of California
>> Riverside, CA 92521
>> Professor of Pharmaceutical Sciences
>> University of California
>> Irvine, CA 92697
>> Chemical Sciences 448
>> v: 951-827-2722
>> michael.pirrung at ucr.edu <mailto:michael.pirrung at ucr.edu>
>> 
>> All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them. Galileo Galilei (1564 - 1642).
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 

  --
Best Regards, 

Dr. Michael Pirrung
Distinguished Professor of Chemistry
University of California
Riverside, CA 92521
Professor of Pharmaceutical Science
University of California
Irvine, CA 92697
v: 951-827-2722
michael.pirrung at ucr.edu
https://profiles.ucr.edu/michael.pirrung
Room 448, Chemical Sciences

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered;
the point is to discover them. Galileo Galilei (1564 - 1642).

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