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<div><b>EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW</b> </div>
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<h1>I underestimated the red shirts : Suthep</h1></div>
<div>The Nation, 25 May 2009<br><br> </div></div><br> <br>
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<h2>Suthep Thaugsuban, the Democrat Party secretary-general who is the deputy prime minister in charge of security affairs, talks to Somroutai Sapsomboon and Kornchanok Raksaseri about the coalition government, the military, the red shirts and ousted premier Thaksin Shinawatra. The main topics:</h2>
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</div><font color="#0000cd">The government is viewed as being backed by the military.</font>
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<p>I see that viewpoint as belonging to someone with a broken heart. They try to discredit and reduce the credibility of the military. They feel that when they were government, the military did not follow their orders. But when the Democrats are in power, the military does as instructed.<br>
<font color="#0000cd">That image was caused by the fact that this government was formed inside the military barracks.</font>
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<p>In fact, it was not a military unit; it was some place nearby, which I would like not to identify. I had good ties with senior figures in the military, and I particularly admired General Prawit [Wongsuwan, the current defence minister]. He didn't speak much but he spoke clearly. He could be reliable and was respected by younger military officers. So I got in touch with him.
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<p>My question for him was if the military would follow orders from a new government? That was an important question I had to ask. It's because I saw what happened during the governments of<strong><a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/adsearch.php?keyword=+Samak+Sundaravej+" target="_blank"><font color="#003399"> Samak Sundaravej </font></a></strong>and Somchai Wongsawat. I wanted to know what the military thought, but I couldn't just go to the Army chief or the armed forces supreme commander and asked that question. I went to General Prawit because he was a retired officer and he should know what the younger generals thought. Prawit told me that the soldiers wanted the country to be free from conflict and that they would be pleased if anyone would do the job. He said the military was ready to follow government orders if they were lawful and legitimate.
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<p>I asked him frankly if the military thought of staging a coup given the volatile situation at that time. He said the military would stage another coup only if that was the last option to ensure the country's survival. It's because they had learned lessons. Even though they had the power, it's difficult for them to run the country due to the strong opposition from the international community and inside the country. He wished me good luck. I asked him to give the same answers to leaders of other prospective coalition partners if they asked the same questions. That's why [the prospective coalition leaders met in the place in question]. We already reached an agreement but the meeting was to make sure there would be no problems.<br>
<font color="#0000ff">It was reported that Army chief General Anupong Paochinda was also present.</font>
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<p>I would not be so specific as to who was there. I neither admit nor deny it. The meeting was held just to allow the prospective coalition partners to listen for themselves. One major concern for them was that if they joined a new coalition and the military staged a coup a few months afterwards, it would be disastrous for them. I told them I had someone apart from me who could give them assurance. <br>
<font color="#0000cd">The military was viewed as taking no action about the incident in Pattaya. Previously it was the police who were 'in the neutral gear mode'.</font>
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<p>Thank you for this question. People don't know the facts. The problem is we have no laws about crowd control. In the Pattaya case, it was the police who were in charge and the military acted as their assistants. It turned out there were not enough police [to deal with the protesters]. There are too many roads to the hotel [the venue for the<strong><a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/adsearch.php?keyword=+Asean+" target="_blank"><font color="#003399"> Asean </font></a></strong>Summit with dialogue partners in April]. It was like a basket with holes; protesters came in from everywhere. Frankly speaking, the police did not want to confront protesters because they were afraid of clashes. They learned some lessons and became the culprits in the eyes of society from the earlier bloody clashes with protesters, including the yellow shirts.
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<p>The police spoke frankly about their problem. At that time I asked them openly if there was some way that would shift the responsibility to the politicians in power. They said no way, and I got shivers. The<strong><a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/adsearch.php?keyword=+red+shirts+" target="_blank"><font color="#003399"> red shirts </font></a></strong>said they would come in several thousands. I thought of using soldiers as volunteers but there was only a small number of them. And the government asked them to use only shields. At that time the<strong><a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/adsearch.php?keyword=+red+shirts+" target="_blank"><font color="#003399"> red shirts </font></a></strong>threatened to use violent methods, which I didn't think they would actually do. I was afraid of clashes so I instructed the police and the military not to use force. I didn't want the matter to be politicised, which would cause damage to the country. I consulted with MPs, the Chon Buri governor and the mayor of Pattaya, and we agreed to bring out civilians. We believed that civilians would not clash with civilians, as we were more concerned with a possible clash between security forces and protesters. The government stressed that no weapons would be used and everyone agreed.
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<p>Chon Buri's authorities told me they had blue shirts, which were part of the Interior Ministry campaign for social unity. We agreed to use the blue shirts. At night I inspected different locations and<strong><a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/adsearch.php?keyword=+Newin+Chidchob+" target="_blank"><font color="#003399"> Newin Chidchob </font></a></strong>emerged. In fact there were others, such as Suwit Khunkitti. Everyone wanted the summit to go ahead without problems. We agreed to group soldiers, police and civilians and prepared vehicles with sound systems for them to counter the protesters. We wanted to buy time; we needed a little over one day before the summit would be completed.
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<p>However, as Pattaya is a tourist city and people wake up late, people who promised to join arrived later than the red shirts. Eventually there were clashes and things didn't go as planned. The soldiers were not prepared for a clash while most of the police had to go to the hotels where foreign leaders stayed, as many red-shirt taxi drivers protested there.<br>
<font color="#0000cd">Some people said it was Newin's plan to include the blue shirts and that caused the Pattaya<strong><a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/adsearch.php?keyword=+Asean+" target="_blank"><font color="#003399"> Asean </font></a></strong>Summit to be cancelled.</font>
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<p>That's a misunderstanding. The blue shirts have been distributed by the Interior Ministry all over the country. That is part of a campaign for social peace and unity. Many of the blue shirts were not distributed because people arrived late. The<strong><a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/adsearch.php?keyword=+red+shirts+" target="_blank"><font color="#003399"> red shirts </font></a></strong>managed to take some of the shirts that were piled up to be distributed.
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<p>Our goal was to avoid creating a perception that Thai people clashed with one another. When the red shirt protesters besieged Government House, we went to work elsewhere to avoid confrontation. Instead of using force, the government went to court. Even for the<strong><a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/adsearch.php?keyword=+Asean+" target="_blank"><font color="#003399"> Asean </font></a></strong>Summit in Pattaya, we opted for a soft stance. But frankly speaking I made a wrong evaluation about them. That's a mistake I have to admit. I didn't think my countrymen would have done so many bad things. In the past, things that would affect the country's image often were avoided. The images of them [red-shirt protesters] storming into the hotel and smashing glasses were terrifying for foreigners. I didn't expect them to be that serious.<br>
<font color="#0000ff">As for the incident at the Interior Ministry, some people suspect it was a plot to 'trap' the red shirts.</font>
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<p>The reason why we had to go to the Interior Ministry was that it was a holiday and we had no place to go. To declare such an important announcement [state of emergency], we couldn't do it at some hotel. Also, the person who drafted the announcement - Deputy Interior Minister Thaworn Senneam - was working at the Interior Ministry. The ministry has a network of communications with the provincial authorities, which makes it easy for explanation. There was no hidden agenda as to why the Interior Ministry was selected.<br>
<font color="#0000ff">The<strong><a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/adsearch.php?keyword=+red+shirts+" target="_blank"><font color="#003399"> red shirts </font></a></strong>plan another major rally at Sanam Luang. Do you have any plan to deal with it?</font>
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<p>Wherever the protest is, as long as it causes no troubles for others, the government won't prevent it. But if they break into small groups to besiege different places, I won't tolerate that.<br><font color="#0000ff">There is a proposal that the government should negotiate with<strong><a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/adsearch.php?keyword=+Thaksin+" target="_blank"><font color="#003399"> Thaksin </font></a></strong>Shinawatra, who is viewed as the root cause of the political conflict.</font>
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<p>Don't you remember that shortly after the government was formed, I asked him for a talk and he rejected it? Today I am not in a position to talk with him. He has already committed a lot of offences. His demands are that he be exempted from jail and his confiscated money be returned. I can't talk to him now.<br>
<font color="#0000ff">Did<strong><a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/adsearch.php?keyword=+Thaksin+" target="_blank"><font color="#003399"> Thaksin </font></a></strong>really say those were his demands?</font>
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<p>He did not say it clearly but it's clear enough. <br><font color="#0000ff">Have you been in talk with him secretly?</font>
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<p>Never. I have no political secrets.<br><font color="#0000ff">Why did some Democrat MPs came out to express their dissatisfaction over the performance of Cabinet members from the Democrat Party?</font>
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<p>The past four months were hectic for the government. There was no time for sitting down and talking. There are some issues that Cabinet members need to explain to the party's MPs, but they haven't done so. These include the preparation of the 2010 Budget Bill; MPs want explanations as to why certain projects got funding while others in their provinces didn't. Certain projects were shelved and really upset many MPs. I think that within the next two weeks, I will ask the party's Cabinet members to explain to MPs about the budget bill even though it has not been tabled for parliamentary deliberation.<br>
<font color="#0000ff">What about the upcoming Cabinet reshuffle?</font>
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<p>I prefer not to call it a reshuffle; it will be simply appointing new people to replace someone. As the 'government manager' I am waiting for nominations. Other coalition parties have not made any suggestions regarding this matter. When I asked them to join the coalition, we agreed that they would keep the seats they held in the previous government. The principle will stay and the more MP seats they get won't affect the original quotas.<br>
<font color="#0000ff">How is the government over the past four months?</font>
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<p>The government is facing crises on two sides. First, it's economic crisis, and the prime minister announced that he would first take care of the majority of the country- farmers. He looked into the rice issue himself and assigned Deputy Prime Minister<strong><a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/adsearch.php?keyword=+Korbsak+Sabhavasu+" target="_blank"><font color="#003399"> Korbsak Sabhavasu </font></a></strong>to oversee corn. I take care of rubber.
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<p>The other side involves security and political problems.<strong><a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/adsearch.php?keyword=+Thaksin+" target="_blank"><font color="#003399"> Thaksin </font></a></strong>and the 'Thaksin regime' have caused problems for the country. We try to be as flexible as possible and avoid clashes by any means. We want people to be aware that what happened posed a serious threat to national security. In the recent Coronation Day, the government encouraged people to wear different colours of shirts to celebrate. The point is that although we have different political views, we have the same King. From now on I will do more and more about this.
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<p>This year I will have two big projects. First, it's about Mother's Day. Her Majesty the Queen initiated many projects and I will ask the state agencies to carry on those projects and call for public participation. And there will be follow-up activities about Coronation Day. Members of the public will be encouraged to join different projects initiated by His Majesty the King, particularly ones involving the philosophy of Sufficiency Economy. The goal is to prevent people from becoming too obsessed with political conflict.<br>
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